tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post3247030649438603705..comments2023-11-05T05:17:45.320-05:00Comments on Model Minority "Thugs, Feminists and Boom Bap": Why People Hate 808's and HeartbreakM.Dot.http://www.blogger.com/profile/05113752779973426025noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-85971133721723042222009-07-06T14:09:10.794-04:002009-07-06T14:09:10.794-04:00I have to agree with Heavy D!. I think Kanye West ...I have to agree with Heavy D!. I think Kanye West has always been surprisingly vulnerable. Almost all of his raps go beyond the material aspects of hip-hop culture to his personal thoughts and feelings on a lot of different subjects. "Addiction" examined unhealthy relationships and substance abuse. "Jesus Walks" reveals his personal struggle with religion. The list goes on. I hate 808s and Heartbreak because...he can do better. Kanye West has real talent, lyrically and production-wise, and relying on Auto-Tune for an entire album just seemed like laziness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-81380068649830595342009-02-24T19:45:00.000-05:002009-02-24T19:45:00.000-05:00Well I felt every song.. I went throw it last year...Well I felt every song.. I went throw it last year lost ma grams..and my girl.. it was the coldest winter...and she has a cold heart.. every song i delt with.. but it made me feel like some one else goes though it to. stop hating .. If you been through it u feel it .. if not u wont ever know..Mc Lovinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16442989699422324767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-78133784159122133992008-12-25T15:32:00.000-05:002008-12-25T15:32:00.000-05:00He is not Luther Vandross. He is not Marvin Gaye. ...He is not Luther Vandross. He is not Marvin Gaye. He isn't even Akon.<BR/>=======<BR/>Thats hella funny, b/c I would Marry Marvin tomorrow if he were alive, and well and uhhhh, interested.<BR/><BR/>He can try all he wants to, but without actual singing talent to rely on, auto-tune can do but so much.<BR/>======<BR/>Thats a fine assessment.<BR/>I disagree. But I see where you are coming from.Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-24317367049625517332008-12-23T12:17:00.000-05:002008-12-23T12:17:00.000-05:00I think hustleknocker and ne have it exactly right...I think hustleknocker and ne have it exactly right: the majority of people I know who don't like 808s and Heartbreak don't like for one simple reason: <BR/><BR/>Kanye. West. Cannot. Sing.<BR/><BR/>He is not Luther Vandross. He is not Marvin Gaye. He isn't even Akon. It doesn't matter what he says about love and relationships. He can expose himself and put himself out there as much as he wants to. He can experiment all he wants to. In fact, as a music fan, I love it when artists experiment; it keeps the genre fresh.<BR/><BR/>But the fact that he took a chance on (expressing) love doesn't mean that I'm going to give him a pass if he can't sing. And Kanye West can't sing. He can try all he wants to, but without actual singing talent to rely on, auto-tune can do but so much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-88937358500792228982008-12-23T01:27:00.000-05:002008-12-23T01:27:00.000-05:00the blog game has turned into the rap game' about ...the blog game has turned into the rap game' about music blogs moreso.<BR/>========<BR/>Evidence?M.Dot.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05113752779973426025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-85436548155748785732008-12-22T16:54:00.000-05:002008-12-22T16:54:00.000-05:00LOL admit you love for the snarky-ness. ha!It was ...LOL admit you love for the snarky-ness. ha!<BR/><BR/>It was too funny, better to hear it over a beat even. <BR/><BR/>Its like dude just in one bar expressed how some of us emcees feel about the blog-game.<BR/><BR/>Btw, something I'd like for you to tackle is how, 'the blog game has turned into the rap game' about music blogs moreso. Do it whenever you feel, I've been itching to write a song about it but..neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482376355312549331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-2431230606396777662008-12-20T18:57:00.000-05:002008-12-20T18:57:00.000-05:00But the excuse that black men aren't allowed to ex...But the excuse that black men aren't allowed to express their human-ness through and through is not a good supporting argument for how good or bad this album is<BR/>====<BR/>I never said that. <BR/>I said that i enjoyed the album AND the a particular criticism of it (its gay, you shouldn't like it and if you do you should have your balls cut off) reminds me of how Black men, in Hip Hop are only allowed to be<BR/>enraged.<BR/><BR/>The I like the singing and the rhythms reminded me of Spanish jazz at times. I was also reminded of Jay Electronica and Doom, with the rawness and eclecticism of the samples.<BR/><BR/>Neo, to be clear, this isn't an merely and "emotional response" but one of appreciation of the what the shit sounds like.<BR/><BR/>btw....did you see Jay Elec say "N.gga fuck yo blog." yesterday on twitter? Priceless.<BR/><BR/>Oh sush about Rafster. He makes me want to write better. As do little black children. Snarkyass.Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-12412961301771480532008-12-19T15:59:00.000-05:002008-12-19T15:59:00.000-05:00Let's go with a very popular and albeit mainstream...Let's go with a very popular and albeit mainstream electronica-based group - Radiohead. Their first two albums esp. Kid A. <BR/><BR/>Portishead's last album anyone? <BR/><BR/>I mean I'm glad it hit the spot FOR YOU. But the excuse that black men aren't allowed to express their human-ness through and through is not a good supporting argument for how good or bad this album is. If we're discussing an album let's not just discuss musical intent, let's discuss the music. Do the beats bang? Did that xylophone take you somewhere, did the harp just smack you in the mouth? Was his/her voice coarse or did it just sing to the tune of your heartbeat? <BR/> <BR/>P.S. Rafi ain't God. He's a good writer though. <BR/><BR/>LOL @ you...still.neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482376355312549331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-90593501852286482152008-12-19T13:30:00.000-05:002008-12-19T13:30:00.000-05:00The problem with 808's is simply that musically it...The problem with 808's is simply that musically it just sucked. Esp. from the standpoint of where Kanye was trying to go with it and based on his past success.<BR/>=====<BR/>Thats cool that it sucked for you.<BR/>For me, it hit the spot.<BR/>That being said. Boo.<BR/><BR/>If he was going for electronica based music with a hip hopesque type attitude he didn't do a good job of it.<BR/>======<BR/>What constitutes a good job of it. <BR/>Like Rafi said, BRING EVIDENCE.Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-47442739443702863272008-12-19T11:46:00.000-05:002008-12-19T11:46:00.000-05:00Its not so much that Hip Hop says NO to being vuln...Its not so much that Hip Hop says NO to being vulnerable actually with the 'new wave' now its really deemed ok and folks are given credit for it. The problem with 808's is simply that musically it just sucked. Esp. from the standpoint of where Kanye was trying to go with it and based on his past success. <BR/><BR/>If he was going for electronica based music with a hip hopesque type attitude he didn't do a good job of it. I mean some of these ppl who don't like the album dig electronic music and are actually hardcore fans of the genre hence the 'hate.' <BR/><BR/>Honestly him feeling the way he did about his mom or the breakup with his girl is at least to me perfectly understandable. Nothing wrong with making a personal album or a concept around that either. It just wasn't well-done.neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482376355312549331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-81946907217643461422008-12-16T21:35:00.000-05:002008-12-16T21:35:00.000-05:00and I think Kanye is dope to be like, 'This is wha...and I think Kanye is dope to be like, 'This is what I felt and F what y'all think about it...'<BR/>====<BR/><BR/>yes. Yes. Yes.<BR/><BR/>Birkhold calls it "underdog masculinity."<BR/><BR/>A man willing to embrace, what WE see as feminine<BR/>and saying EFF you if you THINK you want to say something.Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-17573848949914246272008-12-16T17:19:00.000-05:002008-12-16T17:19:00.000-05:00M. - Thanks for sharing what you thought about 808...M. - Thanks for sharing what you thought about 808s. I LOVED it too. I think you are right that hearing a black man express pain and sadness is rare in hip hop. <BR/><BR/>It's not rare for them to express those emotions with regard to their mothers, but for the loss of a rel'ship, this CD is precedent setting. <BR/><BR/>There are lots of songs where rappers express love for their moms and daughters, but love (not lust...not let's get married since we're both here and i have been able to stand you for this long - love) is rare <BR/><BR/>and I think Kanye is dope to be like, 'This is what I felt and F what y'all think about it...'Penni Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454668427624327572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-10637842743562235292008-12-06T14:49:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:49:00.000-05:00Well. Thank you Dan.Thats what we do around here,l...Well. Thank you Dan.<BR/><BR/>Thats what we do around here,<BR/>listen, critique, support and try and make some art of our very own.<BR/><BR/>I would be interested in hearing what you think of it.Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-71306200883283442382008-12-06T04:53:00.000-05:002008-12-06T04:53:00.000-05:00that was deep!as a black male who has no qualms ab...that was deep!<BR/>as a black male who has no qualms about expressing emotions, i appreciate this chat. i have not given the new kanye's 808 time to breathe on my speakers because i think he has overexposed himself and plus everyone is hating on the album. after reading this i will hear him out.<BR/><BR/>kudosDanFodiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772320927364943159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-74463802339979851862008-12-03T21:04:00.000-05:002008-12-03T21:04:00.000-05:00Church.Church.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05650019719627786508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-30931878358299190502008-12-03T17:11:00.000-05:002008-12-03T17:11:00.000-05:00Yup! This ties into my recent post about how we e...Yup! This ties into my recent post about how we expect Black men to behave and why anything antithetical to that is deemed wack.Perfect Stormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03950062655380880200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-287074613592717662008-12-03T12:56:00.000-05:002008-12-03T12:56:00.000-05:00Kanye's biggest barrier is two-fold:1) He's not a ...Kanye's biggest barrier is two-fold:<BR/><BR/>1) He's not a singer. I don't mean he's not a good singer, i mean he's not a singer by any definition of the word. He sings about as well as most of us sing in the shower. No amount of autotuning/vocoding can save that.<BR/><BR/>I have the same problem with 808s that i had with Lauryn Hill's guitar playing on her MTV Unplugged joint. Had she hired a guitar player or become an accomplished guitarist, that album would've been a classic instead of the album it was.<BR/><BR/>Second problem with Ye is his ego. It's hard to root for someone whose spends every other breathe telling you that he's worth rooting for.I'm from Chicago, i know cats that know him... his life wasn't so screwed up as to have the chip that he has. He's been a working producer for such a long time and people have respected his work for so long that ego/attitude just rubs folks the wrong way.<BR/><BR/>if this were mos def, we'd luv this album because mos is a reasonably humble cat (and a better singer).HustleKnockerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578735518105427366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-72160795758032179372008-12-03T03:29:00.000-05:002008-12-03T03:29:00.000-05:00Tray- I actually wasn't responding to your post, i...Tray- I actually wasn't responding to your post, it wasn't on the page when I wrote my comment, we basically agree.<BR/><BR/>Mdot- I'm kind of uncomfortable with the idea of explaining why people who aren't you don't like an album you like, the whole thing is very presumptuous. There are probably a variety of reasons to like or dislike this album, singling out one sociological one and using it on everybody seems cheap or dishonest.<BR/><BR/>Ye himself has encouraged people to really take sides on it though, every time he speaks it's about how he's this great artist who can't be judged, this makes me feel like I'm a non Kool Aid drinker when I have problems with the album in the same way a bunch of people say Citizen Kane sucks the first time they see it.<BR/><BR/>One thing that's interesting about Kanye is that his persona has always fallen outside stereotypical ideas of black masculinity, but he's become this huge pop-cultural force despite this, or maybe even because of this. One of the problems with that Barack vs 50 movie they made a while ago was that 50 was held up as this straw man representative of hip hip, when in actuality the guys people care about in 2008 are Kanye and Wayne, who both present a much more complicated representation of black masculinity. What does it say about America's attitudes about race and gender that these are the most popular rappers?<BR/><BR/>Also, acting like one of the biggest pop stars in the world is an underdog is a little silly.<BR/><BR/>On the blues comparison: many scholars see the blues as ultimately joyful music, dwelling on sorrow only to transcend it through catharsis. I don't see that in this album. To me, it's just wallowing in self-pity.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17808049949676364048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-45282478466380414812008-12-03T02:25:00.000-05:002008-12-03T02:25:00.000-05:00Oh yeah, Z-Ro's one of my favorite rappers too. I'...Oh yeah, Z-Ro's one of my favorite rappers too. I'm just saying, people have no prob with black men being sad. Okay, that's an overstatement, but no critic has ever knocked a rapper for showing a sensitive side. I mean, I really dare anyone to show me an example, unless it's something ridiculously whiny like Murs. It's just, as you say, what Noz said. Bad songwriting, not much to say.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-47421967143367886712008-12-02T23:44:00.000-05:002008-12-02T23:44:00.000-05:00Weiss, Really?Shit, if you being nice...then Rafi ...Weiss, Really?<BR/><BR/>Shit, if you being nice...then Rafi mean ass must be right behind you...Wow...the male response to this post has been amazing....I was telling my folks today....Dude...the dudes are feeling it..Imma send it to yeye...on the strength...Model Minorityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364810029145290617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-16050818939189576932008-12-02T23:34:00.000-05:002008-12-02T23:34:00.000-05:00I dunno, I mean Z-Ro's one of my favorite rappers,...I dunno, I mean Z-Ro's one of my favorite rappers, even though his sadness is all thug-based, dude is really sad. My main problem is that a lot of the songwriting on this is just too vague. Like Noz wrote in his review, everything's cold and he doesn't have that much to say.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17808049949676364048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-82697431868211052322008-12-02T23:31:00.000-05:002008-12-02T23:31:00.000-05:00Exactly, Weiss? What about Z-Ro? Why do people hat...Exactly, Weiss? What about Z-Ro? Why do people hate him? Oh wait, they don't, he's the most slobbed-on rapper on every blog in the world. People are totally cool with whiny RAPPERS, they just like their whiny rappers to rap and not sing/write poorly written pop songs.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-39048042340455654202008-12-02T23:03:00.000-05:002008-12-02T23:03:00.000-05:00Exactly. Well done, M. Dot.Exactly. Well done, M. Dot.Passion of the Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05668987173360877915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-80838964962214394622008-12-01T10:49:00.000-05:002008-12-01T10:49:00.000-05:00True. I see the big picture. Abnormal yes.After al...True. I see the big picture. Abnormal yes.<BR/><BR/>After all, We Real Cool. It's going to be a minute, a long minute.Vee (Scratch)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06565744565399935705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14243811.post-32129077273735436392008-12-01T08:48:00.000-05:002008-12-01T08:48:00.000-05:00But far from innovative or really changing the gam...But far from innovative or really changing the game like and consistently putting themselves out there like De La Soul. Which is usually far from the emotional range of many hip hop acts although they do not do it thematically in one CD.<BR/>=======<BR/><BR/>Funny because I went from 808's to Stakes is High, Man.M.Dot.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05113752779973426025noreply@blogger.com