Thursday, August 02, 2007

Women Who Like Hip Hop Are Idiots. Pt. I.


While Idiots may be a strong term,
suffice it is to say that it is a challenge to
be a card carrying feminst that sings the words
to "It Ain't No Fun" at the club.

At the end of the day, it leaves us with
a WHOLE LOTTA reconciling to do.

Last March, TMR and I worked on a post on what
it means to be a woman who can quote bell hooks,
Rides for Common AND SING's "It Ain't No Fun"
like its Earth Wind and Fires "Shining Star".

Peep the lyrics.

When I Met You last Night Babaaay
Before you opened up your gap
I had respect for ya lady/But now I take it all back
Cause you gave me all your p*ssy/And ya even licked my balls
Leave your number on the cabinet/And I promise baby, I'll give ya a call
In the comment section, Jonzey remarked that, "Aye Blood, I be
thinking about that same sh*t too", which confirmed that this is something
that I NEEDED to write about.

Honestly, I have been saving it for the new Banner.
I posed a series of questions to TMR.

Below I have pasted an edited version of our responses.
I broke it up into TWO parts, because Gotty has got on
me about my albeit, enjoyable, yet long winded posts.


M.Dot: What does it mean to know the words to Bitches Ain't Shit.

TMR: To know the lyrics to Bitches ain't Shit began with an immediate connection to the song in the simplest manner�Da' beat. As I put on my headphones to listen to my Doggystyle cassette I had no idea what Kurupt was talking bout.
" I have no love for hoes
That's somethin I learned in the pound

M.Dot: You mean to tell me that you never felt this way.
Like, "Sure he cool, but I don't love him."

Oh, well yeah…at first. I remember having a conversation with the dudes on my block about me listening to songs that talk about mashing chicks and calling them bitches and such. They tried to get at me as if I shouldn't have been listening to such lyrics.

Take into consideration I was only about 13 or 14 and these dudes were the street dudes hollering at everything walking down the block with the ole "well ph*ck u then" if the female didn't give them the time of day. Haha. My whole argument was based on the fact that bitches do exist and that's who they were talking about…and I'm not that bitch, I'm that other chick.

used to define "bitch" exclusively for black women who did ill things and therefore deserved this label but Snoop made me understand the word "bitch" could be mutually exclusive for the ill female and for bitch nickas too.

In retrospect, maybe it wasn't just da beats, maybe it was the command of their voices when they rapped about something they felt they had control over� Women, violence and money. Maybe my poverty made me feel a connection based on oppression� Some bitches AINT shit.nThis doesn't make the song any less harmful.

TMR: Naw, but I don't call women or men bitches�well except in the case of a rap lyric. People do shady ass ish and in the case of an emergency I reserve the right to call either sex by the appropriate name. I never usto either. Probly comes from seeing mad n*ggas murked/ fights started over somebody calling someone elses momma/b.momma a b*tch. I say it all the time now.

TMR: Rappers who chose to not follow the rights of passage of disrespecting the female Black body to go gold and platinum risk the scrutiny of being labeled as a "conscious rapper" thereby limiting the audience that rapper is allowed to attract.
"If skills sold
Truth be told
I'd probably be
Talib Kweli
I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common Sense
"~Jay Z Who wrote that rhyme? Was that Jay?

TMR: Yeah.
Phuck Jay even realizes this. but the ultimate goal in capitalism is what" Say it with me now $. And niggas be checking that integrity 'ish at the door.

Why? Cause given the opportunity to throw some bitches, hoes, guns and foes in for some cash� Shit, I might have to reconsider my whole feminist theory. Naw, just playing. But look at the situation/economic classes of most of these rappers� These are dudes from the street where schools are deplorable, families are single headed, wages are considered below poverty so this is the price to escape these conditions.

If lyrics sold then truth be told
I'll probably be just as rich and famous as jay-z
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like common sense
Next best thing I do a record with common sense

M Dot? And what about the female rapper that aint on some lil kim "throw lips to the ____" ish?

TMR: Yeah Kim was fun, she said all the things I wanted to but were afraid of. She taught me the power of the p*ssy, but sometimes I think she used the p*ssy as a front. Somehow I think she was more than that but since her use of the p*ssy got her famous that was all she was destined for. Female rappers who ain't checkin for the hypersexual persona ain't getting checked for. Period. How dope is Jean Grae, and she just getting on a semi major label with the whole Blacksmith deal. WTF!!!!

Music is marketing.
Nor do the Clipse, Kweli or .......
But now. Half the sh*t we like don't have mass appeal.
"Controversy works, and plus I got a pussy/
but even with that, people scared to push me/
who's a pussy first?"~ Jean Grae

So. Do you all think we are hypocrites?

Or do you think we are taking life as it comes
and trying to make/find a way for ourselves?

Are the Vixens "Slores"?

When was the last time you found yourself singing
the lyrics to some outta pocket sh*t?



neo said...

I used to feel that when screaming obscenities at the height of my bone thug era...

We are hypocrites in a sense and I agree with TMR some of us can critically offset the repugnancy in those lyrics whilst understanding the conditions that bring such lyrics to the forefront but rappers do have the responsibility to make it clear through their physical actions outside the booth and offstage that "hey whilst I'm rapping about shooting person A or B, its not REAL!"

the sad thing is hip hop more than any other genre is so self-consumed with "keeping it real" and making everything seem authentic as if that in of itself powers its very charisma and so it turns into a vicious and often in some cases violent cycle (see "Stop snitching" and deaths of somem rappers).

I feel my generation of up and coming emcees need to let the kids know some of what we rap about is a means to an end. Not necessarily the end itself. Yes, its ok to talk about your life, but sometimes we do embellish certain aspects of reality in order to give you an "escape" sometimes.

I don't think the VV's are "slores" but it is hard to look at a woman who openly shows off in that manner on video, and take her seriously...its human, we feed off our sensual perceptions. So when you see a scantily clad chick compared to a more modest dressed one, it doesn't matter whether the modest one been sleeping round the block chances are you'll think the scantily clad mama is a hoochie.

She Hate Me said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
She Hate Me said...

I would be in total error if I were to say everyone is a hypocrite.

I only know about me.

And you can't spell hypocrite without O in it.

I know I've said one thing, thought something else, and done something almost completely different from what I've thought and said. Too bad I mirror hip-hop.

Sprite had it totally wrong. Image, especially in Hip-Hop, is everything.

Neo has it right. I know within the building I work in, you see women who have the look of running for a political seat, but, honestly, the only thing they running for is "That Thing" © Lauryn.

It's scary to think that because of some people, every woman has to be lumped into the same pile of "slores". I've met 1 or 2 VV in my lifetime (it pays to be around Pharrell and them....) and, honestly, they didn't come off as some dollar store hookers.

I think that for every woman who tries to keep her legs closed, only dress that way for the video, is actually trying to make it, there's two that does the exact opposite; they don't care what goes down, as long as that have that almighty dollar.

Hip-hop has more than it's fair share of hypocrites. I can run off at least 5 or 6 rappers that aren't who they play off the top of my head... and what's bad is, they are starting to believe their own act.

Last time I was rapping along to something completely off kilter for me? Cashimere Thoughts. I wouldn't make a female hop on her good foot if she had a broke leg...

But here's two dollars for cab money, 'cause you not riding with me.

Just playing. Or am I being hypocritical again?

M.Dot. said...

But here's two dollars for cab money, 'cause you not riding with me

I don't get it.

She Hate Me said...

I don't get it.

Sorry, it's a mash up of like fifty different quotes into one.

Jay told the girl in the song that she was his "trick"...

The Two Dollars came in.....

You know what?

Never mind. Poor attempt at humor. But at least I can admit I make mistakes.

To the bar! PatrĂ³n for everybody!

M.Dot. said...

You silly dude.

neo said...

this ya avy got me checking for it something hoard...

Flint said...

First off, to counter Lil Kim, I offer Missy. I've recently come around to the opinion that Supa Dupa Fly has to count as one of the top 25 Hip Hop albums of all time and that girl wore a fat suit in the biggest video for that album. Sure Missy's come around to being sexier over time, but you can't deny that she's pushed her creativity far more than herr sexuality at all times.

Second funny thing is that this site came to mind cause I just read the section of Nelson George's Hip Hop America where he discusses critiquing 2 Live Crew at Spelman college and I thought to myself, I wonder what MM is up to these days... The debates haven't moved much huh?

One of my takes on this issue has always been that as a thoughtful and intelligent person, I can consume entertainment without being consumed by it. I don't call women bitches or hoes or treat them as such, hence even though I know the words to a lot of songs with some pretty deplorable music, the effect on my actual thinking and behavior is limited. I mean I've laughed at some completely out of hand shit (Luke, Akinyele, that Snoop shit) but still wince when I see that kind of thing in real life.

On the other hand, that is partially because I have the advantage of not having grown up in the same hoods and environments that most rappers do. I can enjoy and not be consumed by it, because I'm not of it. A great deal of hip hop's consumers don't have that choice and perhaps by endorsing rappers with these views, I do a disservice to those whom it affects. That argument goes for a lot of the perceived negatives of hip hop.

I've got no answers but I'm interested in hearing the rest of this debate and it'd be nice to move to some actual conclusions rather than ending with a SMH and going on in with no further revelations.

Illaim said...

I would not label you hypocrites, nor do I feel one term is strong enough to encompass the rationale yall employ, while trying to implement a level or righteousness into your action while maneuvering through a ghastly economic system that utilizes compromising of principles as an accelerant.

To be honest I’m not that comfortable with the term “slore”, nor am I a subscriber to gender bias when it comes to application of sexual appetite. Like most groups I feel like that there is a myriad of thought and rationale within the whole “video girl” family. Some are soulless money chasers which would not make them any different from millions of others in different professions, others might not have been exposed to a level information that would spawn contemplation about themselves and how the imagery they might take part in creating dehumanizes themselves there race and WOMEN, as a whole. Some really might just love with they do, and be some of the greatest people in the world. To use and example…I hate pigs….but I know all pigs aren’t racist, abusers of power. To make a broad based highly slanderous accusation about someone solely based on there profession is reckless to me.

Hmmm ummm lets see…

Jedi Mind Tricks “Nada Cambia”

"I'm like Mussolini, I rule with a iron fist
I stab you in the bladder with a dagger and watch you die in piss
Cut inside your wrist, drink the bloodmoney
And your face is the perfect place for a slug, money
You ain't a thug money, you all maggots
You like to chill and hold hands with faggots
You like to conduct yourself like a savage
You like the smell of males on your mattress
Cause that's established, I fuckin hate you
I hate your mother and father, because they made you
I hate the universe, because it create you
I hate everyone and anything that embrace you
Who fuckin raised you? You a fuckin disgrace!
And if you come around my way you get bucked in the face
Get snuffed in the face, then I wack you
With razors, nines, guns and what have you"

I know……..this blog is dealing with women…but I’m trying to take the meaning of “outta pocket” to all levels.

I’ve come to point in my life where I, at least consciously, treat women on a equal plane with men…

But even tho..I’m not homophobic, think they should be allowed to become married, receive benefits and all of that good stuff, in all actuality my actions are no more better than a shaky liberals would be…

Listing and thoroughly enjoying songs like this and Styles P “Kill That Faggot” (It’s just the chorus that’s really all that bad), Shows me I might have some ways to travel in my thought…


The old maxim of You gotta love yaself before you can love and respect anyone else holds up in this conversation.. If the vast majority of Hip Hop crafted is molded from the clay of Black Male Destruction how can we be expected to respect Women when we don’t love and respect ourselves in general?

M.Dot. said...

I suppose to do a missy Post last summner and I was f*cking slipping.

Thank you.
Missy Post. Coming up next week.

I can enjoy and not be consumed by it, because I'm not of it.
You Black, White, Latino, Asian?
Im currrious.
Let a dame know.

it'd be nice to move to some actual conclusions rather than ending with a SMH and going on in with no further revelations.
Are you trynna pull my card.
Suffice it is to say that the ending was wack/lame.
I really look to the readers to add to the conclusion.

While I will infact start working on one,
what would you like to hear about specifilly in the concl?

M.Dot. said...

If the vast majority of Hip Hop crafted is molded from the clay of Black Male Destruction how can we be expected to respect Women when we don’t love and respect ourselves in general?

flint said...

I'm black, African though. Didn't grow up in the US, my experiences and world view have always been different from people who the African American experience. Growing up in the US creates unspeakably complex personal racial histories which immigrants like me have less experience with.

Was trying to pull your card, I'd just like the conversation to continue to some kind of logical end I guess.

M.Dot. said...

I'm black, African though.

Growing up in the US creates unspeakably complex personal racial histories which immigrants like me have less experience with.
Um. Yall was colonized too no?

Then the distinction is growing up with a majority that LOOKS like you.

As opposed growing up a "model minority".

I KNOW THAT THERE ARE CRAZY international readers, and I never hear from you all.

Glad you spoke up.

Was trying to pull your card, I'd just like the conversation to continue to some kind of logical end I guess.
Not a problem.

I think when I do the pimps up hoes down review, I will have more concl.


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